LevelUp Casino - 一般ディスカッション

What a mess !!!!!!!!!!!

Activated 20 FreeSpins today where I fought my way up to €830. Suddenly bonus conditions met and only €50 left in the account. The lady in the chat told me the highest payout is €50. (I don't go to the casino for 50€)

They steal me 780 € !!!!!!!!! 🙁

So hands off, no one needs such bonuses !!!!!!!

Your Slotter Bessi

Was eine Sauerei !!!!!!!!!!

Hatte heute 20 FreeSpins aktiviert wo ich mich bis 830€ hoch gekämpft habe. Plötzlich Bonusbedingungen erfüllt und nur noch 50€ auf dem Konto. Die Dame im Chat erklärte mir höchste Auszahlung sind 50 €. (für 50€ gehe ich doch nicht ins Casino )

Man klaut mir 780€ !!!!!!!!! 🙁

Also Finger weg, solche Bonusse braucht kein Mensch !!!!!!!

Euer Slotter Bessi

Hello,

allow me to introduce you to the maximum cashout rule because this is most probably a rule you've sadly never heard about before.

It says that you are eligible to withdraw this particular sum ONLY, every amount exceeding this limit is voided.

Feel free to check all rules applied to this bonus example:

I strongly recommend you to read this guide to get better oriented in the field of bonuses:

https://casino.guru/casino-bonuses

You can also undergo our free bonus course, I'm sure it's truly useful:

https://casino.guru/academy/course/online-casinos-bonuses

Let me know how you like those 🙂.

Does anyone else have delay issue when depositing via neosurf at LevelUp casino? 3 deposits so far and always a 5+ hour wait for the funds to credited. This seems to be the only casino with this issue. Thought neosurf is an instant deposit method. Not looking forward to how long a withdrawal takes

Hello,

in general, casinos usually allow players to play with "borrowed" money because almost every transfer takes some time to proceed, but players would love to play immediately. Not saying that this is the explanation, it just crossed my mind.

This is also a great casino where I like to gamble from time to time!

There are really some very good casinos! 😀

Auch dies ist ein tolles casino in welchem ich ab und an gerne zocke!

Es gibt echt einige sehr gute casinos! 😀

d Even their user reviews rating is pretty high. This makes me happy, cause it seems the player's experiences are in concert with the casino rating. It's somehow rare... 🤔

Have you ever tried LuckyElf too? I wonder whether any significant differences can be found between those two casinos under the same management. 🙂

I'd say, the Elven version should be more pointed, especially when it comes to ears... 😁

I'm on the road a lot with Guru 😀 I think it will be because of that 🙂

I've tried the casino a few times but it wasn't really my thing, so I haven't gambled there for a while.

But somehow made me want to play Luckyelf again 😀

Ich bin bei Guru echt viel unterwegs 😀 ich denke daran wird es liegen 🙂

Das Casino habe ich einige Male ausprobiert aber es war nicht so meins weswegen ich dort schon eine Weile nicht mehr zocke.

Hast mir aber irgendwie Lust gemacht bei Luckyelf wiedereinmal zu spielen 😀

I had a bad experience with Level Up. Their free spins win cap should really trigger a warning about their Ts & Cs.

Using this "max cashout" rule, they essentially STOLE about $400 from a member of my family. Worse still, when asked to point out where this rule is written, I get directed to this:

"Free spins attached to a cash match promotion have 40 times wagering requirements and max win 50 CAD."

That clearly says the FREE SPINS have max WIN of $50. It does NOT say max cashout. They're (probably deliberately) wrongly interpreting their own rules and using it as a way to control how much people can win.

Every casino I've ever played at has a rule like this, however, they also have a MAX CASHOUT rule written right after it. LevelUp (and likely all casinos run by Friolion) did not have that rule in place.

Implementing a max CASHOUT rule on free spins that require a deposit is bad enough. Throw in the 40x wagering requirement and it's just downright awful!

Who in their right mind would grind out $2000 worth of wagering to win what amounts to $30 ($50 minus your initial $20 deposit)?? To meet those kind of requirements, you need to have a few big wins.. wins they will steal from you the second you complete the wagering requirements.

Be warned!!

Edit: I forgot to add this..

All of that being said, I still find LevelUp an enjoyable place to play, so they must be doing something right!

Hello CasinoStreamer,

can I ask you, what did you enjoy playing at LuckyElf the most? Was it a specific game or the casino itself? 🙂

Hello DaStupidKidd,

as I read about your experience with the casino, your family member did not receive 400 dollars and if there is no possibility of communication with the casino, then I would recommend you to make a complaint on our website. You can do it for a member of your family. You can also see how the entire complaint process works with us. I'll keep my fingers crossed 🙂 🤞

Hello dear Honza!

I haven't played at LuckyElf for a while 🙂 but I will make up for the days and report back 😀

Hallo lieber Honza!

Ich habe schon eine Weile nicht mehr bei LuckyElf gespielt 🙂 werde ich aber die Tage wieder nachholen und Bericht erstatten 😀

Oh, my dear! I didn't mean to prompt you to start playing there again 😁😎.

I wouldn't dare, though any good and honest review would be an awesome addition to the forum.

Maybe, I'm doing this for toooo long💚

Hey there - I somehow find it strange to call a DaStupidKidd again 🙂 I think your cool.

I have to add I find this rule a bullet proof:

"Maximum cashout: $50, Maximum bet: $1The amount of money you can withdraw from your free spins winnings is limited to $50. Any winnings over this limit will be forfeited.

You cannot bet more than $1 while playing with bonus funds. If you break this rule, the casino may confiscate your winnings."

Does it mean the casino uses a different words to express the maximum win limit cap?

From my point of view, such rure is quite normal, and since the winnings come from a free spins only, I would not call that a theft. It's just a rule applied to the bonus. The moment casino limits possible winnings gaind exclusively by using real funds, however, it is unfair.

But I mingt missed a few deatils from the story, so feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong.

Now, that I see the wagering 70 times, this bonus is certainly a bad one, don't you think?

Good day, Mr. Radka! Hope everyone's doing well. I've finally awaken from my slumber and I'm ready to piss the day away lol

Allow me to explain the situation a little bit better so we can all be properly informed..

The free spins were an email promotion that were attached to a 100% match bonus.

Here is the actual promotional email:

As you can see, there is nothing showing a cap on free spins winnings.

Now, I don't expect every single detail to always be readily available, but things that limit your potential winnings are kind of important. If they're not in the email, then surely they should be shown on the bonus information tab or a promotional terms and conditions page. This promotion had neither.

To make matters worse, support had to be contacted to add the spins as they didn't activate automatically. This is important for the following reason:

Note the use of the word "cashout" in their no deposit terms.

When she contacted support after the funds disappeared, she had told them that this must be a mistake by the system. Because the spins were added manually, she proposed that maybe the system saw them as a no deposit bonus and then removed everything over $50.

Their response is as follows:

Note the usage of the word "win" instead of "cashout".

The way she's describing their interpretation of the rules makes little sense, as you could win $100 in the free spins, complete $4000 worth of wagering, and then watch your balance drop to less than what you'd originally won!

Imagine if you'd made a $50 deposit to begin with!!

I can't speak for everyone, but when I see wording such as "free spins have a max win of $50", I understand that to mean the actual free spins. Whether 5, 10 or 50, your win will be capped at $50. If you manage to complete the $2000 worth of wagering attached to that $50, then good on you! You deserve to keep whatever you've won along the way.

Not at LevelUp, though.

They consider "free spins" be the entire act of the spins and the following wagering requirements, which means, if you happen to get incredibly lucky and win something like $300 on 100 free spins and then manage to complete the $12000 worth of wagering, they will reward you with a giant middle finger.

Enjoy your $50!!

Good afternoon, Honza!

If you think there's a good chance of her receiving her winnings, then I'll follow through with your advice.

My concern, is upsetting "the powers that be". Being blacklisted at one casino is no big deal. Being blacklisted from an entire group is a completely different story, however.

Dama is HUGE! One may even go so far as to worry about being cut off from the entire Softswiss platform.

That wouldn't be worth $400 lol

Hi, I read the whole story here and I'd like to get involved.

First of all, I'd say it's important to note that the casino doesn't limit your winnings before you start playing with the free spins. Otherwise, that would be extremely unfair. They also state in their terms and conditions which rules apply to any free spins attached to the deposit bonus. There are no issues so far from my point of you.

Then we really get to the point when we have to discuss the difference between the terms max. cashout and max. win. I've been in the gambling business for a while. When you say "max. win form free spins", then I understand that in way that you play them, you win something (no matter how much), then you need to complete the wagering requirement and if you manage to complete it, you'll get 50.

You're right when you say that you can win a lot when you try to complete the wagering requirement and then you only get 50. Does it suck? Yes. Do people love bonuses despite that? Yes.

I'm not the complaints specialist in CasinoGuru so I can't assume how they would decide in this case. If I had to decide, I'd say the casino is right, but I'd agree they should choose different words next time. There's also another interesting point - if we agree that you're right, then anyone who won less than 50 from the initial amount of free spins, but then they won more when they tried to complete the wagering requirement, they could claim the full amount of winnings.

I'd like to say again that I understand your point, I'd support you if they didn't have anything about the max. win in their terms and conditions, but since they do, the discussion is only limited to the difference between max. win and max. cashout. For me, it's the same when we talk about winnings from bonuses.

I completely understand where you're coming from here, as now I know to be very diligent and ask support if there's even the slightest question about the maximum amount of winnings one is allowed to receive.

I'm guessing that most people, like myself, learn these lessons about the online casino world the hard way; by being burned.

My first lesson was losing about $850 because I failed to make a deposit before I met wagering requirements. That was the moment I started reading all the terms and conditions, and I started realizing all of the dirty little tricks casinos will utilize in order to void your winnings.

Accidentally click spin before adjusting your bet? You just broke the max bet rule. Say goodbye to your winnings.

Played a game that's on the restricted list? Say goodbye to your winnings.

Bonus buy? Gamble feature? Same deal. Hell, they can take your winnings just because they don't like the way you play! I mean really, who wouldn't naturally increase their bet size after a few large wins?

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

While I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, I still believe that they're in the wrong here.

Wording matters. The fact that they even use both phrases in their terms and conditions is what I believe sets it apart, as when talking about no deposit spins, they clearly state that there is a max cashout attached to it.

Either way, it really makes no difference who's right or wrong. If a casino decides not to pay you, you're pretty much hooped. We have very little recourse at our disposal. Launching a complaint with an affiliate site can help from time to time, but that's really only because whoever decided to pay was in a good mood that day.

The only people who have any chance of changing a casinos decision, are the VIP players. If you're dropping $50k a week in their casino, damn right they'll pay you. The irony here, is that those players don't really need the money anyway.

The casino could pay this win without even rolling out of bed. They've likely got more money under the cushions of their couch than this.

Should they pay? I believe so. As I said, wording matters. It definitely matters to them when they quote some obscure rule to void your winnings. You'd like to think that they'd abide their own rules and that they're applied fairly to both parties.

But will they pay? No. Because they're not gonna miss her $20 deposits every month or two and they don't have anyone to hold them accountable.

I'd skip right to the end - you're right that VIP players are the ones that could change anything, but they're often the ones who are treated differently. They most likely don't face similar issues. It's also said to read you're aware of the little TCs that can make you lose your winnings (max. bet rule, restricted games etc.), but your partner still ended up without the money due to another part of the TCs.

Just a little comment about the max. bet rule: We had plenty of cases where the player broke the max. bet rule, but it was obviously an accident. It happened just once and the player got no winnings from it, so they really didn't get any advantage by breaking the rule. There are cases where the player got paid only because we got involved and explained the situation to the casino. Anyway, when the rule is broken multiple times, then there's usually no chance to get the money.

When it comes to the case and the wording difference. I agree that casinos often use any word in their TCs against the player and their TCs often contain strange sentences. That's why the Data team reads them all and we assign negative points for stuff that simply shouldn't be there. This is a tough situation. If I were you, I'd fight, because the wording difference is evident. Nobody can deny it. On the other hand, I know how casinos work and I think even the licensing authority will consider it as acceptable.

I'll try to ask a few colleagues about their opinion on it and I'll let you know here. I'm just not sure if they reply before weekend. We have a regular meetings about similar cases on Wednesday, but I'll be off next week.

I thank you for conversing with me about this.

While I'd love to see my mother get her winnings, I don't wanna bother anyone with something so minor. Seems like a bit of a waste of time.

Also, as I mentioned before, $400 is not worth being potentially blacklisted from all Dama casinos. That doesn't leave a lot of options.

Fact is, I would only pursue this if the general consensus was that they would pay out, which neither of us think will happen. Furthermore, the Curaçao licenses (well, I'd actually say ALL licenses) are nothing more than fancy pieces of paper that say "We gave the government money so they stay out of our affairs!"

The best I could realistically hope to see here, is a change of the wording in their Ts & Cs. Hopefully it would prevent the same thing happening to someone else, since this appears to be a very common theme with LevelUp (judging by the complaints sections of many sites).

Thanks again for your input. I truly appreciate it!