不条理な状況 苦情を申し立てるためのアドバイスが欲しい

Hello everyone, I have been hanging out among the various online casino sites for more than 6 years, all aams mostly just for slots.

I think I have at least some experience.

I noticed that on my gaming account on 888 the only times they've made me win is only by unlocking the bonus and never with the balance deposited. I will tell you that last year I uploaded 400 euros several times (for example 60 then 50 then 70 etc....) in the span of a week. Playing everything at slot bet 60/80/1 never had a bonus/freespin in all these sessions and sometimes, I mean sometimes maybe 2 or 3 times a payout x20/30 the stake. In short, it was always a downward spin.

I complained and they limited my account.

I contacted assistance and they reopened my gaming account at the beginning of 2023

In one week I topped up 400 euros more and more times as I mentioned above and I only placed bets on 60/80/1 euro slot bets.

You will say… Well now the casino will have returned some RTP. The answer is no... Apart from the usual 2/3 paid at x20/30 the bet and got 2 bonus/freespin with one paid 100x and the other x120. Every slot kept pretending to give bonuses/freespins and I only got 2, one paid 0 the other 11 euros (x11) It was just a negative spin.... In short, you understood... 800 euros in a year of play paid return of not even 250 euros. I add that for each deposit they gave a bonus of 20% of the top-up... so imagine the turnaround I made, which are not just counting the 800 paid.

Doesn't that sound like a highly anomalous situation?!?

Because in all these years and in other casinos it has never happened. We know that you lose gambling... But I don't think so

Ciao a tutti sono più di 6 anni che bazzico tra i vari siti online di casino tutti aams per la maggior solo per slot.

Penso di aver esperienza almeno un minimo.

Ho fatto caso che sul mio conto gioco su 888 le uniche volte che mi hanno fatto vincere è solo tramite sblocco del bonus e mai con il saldo depositato. Vi dirò che l anno scorso ho caricato 400 euro in più volte (esempio 60 poi 50 poi 70 etc....) nell' arco di una settimana. Giocando tutto a slot bet 60/80/1 mai avuto un bonus/freespin in tutte ste sessioni e qualche volta, dico qualche volta forse 2 o 3 volte una pagata x20/30 la puntata. Insomma era uno spinnare a ribasso sempre.

Mi sono lamentato e mi hanno limitato il conto gioco.

Ho contattato l.assistenza e mi hanno riaperto il conto gioco all inizio dell' anno 2023

In una settimana ho ricaricato 400 euro sempre in più volte come ho sopracitato ed ho effettuato puntate solo su slot bet 60/80/1euro.

Direte... Beh ora il casino avrà restituito un po' di RTP. La risposta è no... A parte le solite 2/3 pagate a x20/30 la puntata e preso 2 bonus/freespin con pagata uno 100x e l altro x120. Ogni slot mi continuava a fare finta di dare bonus/freespin e ne ho presi soltanto 2 uno pagato 0 l altro 11euro (x11) Era solo uno spinnare in negativo.... Si capiva insomma... in un anno di gioco 800 euro versati ritorno di neanche di 250euro. Aggiungo che ad ogni deposito davano un bonus del 20% della ricarica... quindi immaginate voi il rigiro che ho fatto, che non sono solo da contare gli 800 versati.

Non sembra una situazione altamente anomala?!?

Perché in tutti questi anni e negli altri casino non è mai successo. Si sa che si perde al gioco... Ma così non credo

I'm wondering, do you always play the same game (games)? How many different slots have you played during those sessions? I think it could have something to do with the slots volatility. You may played games with high volatility which means that you don't really win much on those slots and you basically wait for a bigger win that will recover you from the losses.

Anyway, I think it would make sense to look at your gaming history. Many casinos are able to provide an Excel file, where you can simply count the bets and winnings. When I worked in a casino, I could also see the difference in the customer's profile. It was very easy to count the RTP for any customer. This way, you could at least find out if it's just your feeling that you don't win that much or it's actually real and your RTP is extremely low compared to what it should be.

Daniel thanks for your reply I will have played about 15 different slots during all sessions. Medium high volatility... A 3/4 medium low. Yes, I've looked at all the history.

The return of the total is around 25/30% from the casino. counting the total winnings on the total of one year's spin.

I don't think even the unfortunate moment is normal.

Can there be grounds for an appeal?!?

Daniel grazie per la risposta avrò giocato a una 15 di slot diverse durante tutte le sessioni. Volatilità medio alta... Un 3/4 medio bassa. Si ho guardato tutto lo storico.

Il ritorno del totale si aggira intorno al 25/30% da parte del casinò. contando il totale delle vincite sul totale del rigiro di un anno.

Non credo sia la normalità neanche il momento sfortunato.

Ci possono essere gli estremi per un ricorso?!?

Hello,

just to make sure, are those calculations based on your gaming history from the casino, please?

Yes... I sent an email to rightly ask about this anomalous behavior. They replied that the free spins have nothing to do with high winnings and the maximum amount is established (what does that have to do with it?!?!!?!!)

And the usual copy and paste of the message that their RGN randomly generates the combinations of the slots. Who have no reason to modify this to the detriment of the player and in accordance with the law etc etc etc

But my game sessions say totally the opposite

Si... Ho mandato un email per chiedere giustamente questo comportamento anomalo. Mi hanno risposto che le giocate gratis non hanno a che fare con vincite alte e il massimo importo è stabilito (cosa c'entra?!?!!?!!)

E il solito copia e incolla del messaggio che il loro RGN genera casualmente le combinazioni delle slot. Che non hanno minimamente il motivo di modificare questo a svantaggio il giocatore e in conformità della legge etc etc etc

Però le mie sessioni gioco dicono totalmente il contrario

I guess that the casino wanted to point out that winnings from the free spins are probably limited by the max withdrawal rule, so you may win big, but the winnings will be cut down t the limit.

Anyway, have you checked how the RGN works? Feel free to do so here:

"Myth 2: "Slots are programmed not to pay after a big win and to pay more when they’re full of money."

This is a myth which probably comes from the days of standalone slots which paid out to the winning player directly. But it was as much of a myth then as it is now. If you won more money than the slot machine could pay out, you got the remainder from casino staff.

Modern slot machines are connected to a central server and all wins are paid out by casino staff, so there is no need to keep the amount of cash in a slot machine in mind. Random numbers work just fine and this myth is invalid."

What do you think about that?

I already knew this fact and more. I have been on online casino sites for 6 years .... The problem is another.

I don't know if you get it!?!?

Anyway, I filed a complaint....

Sapevo già questo fatto e non solo. sono da 6 anni che sono su siti online da casino.... Il problema è un altro.

Non so se lo hai capito!?!?

Comunque ho mandato un reclamo....

Well, my congratulations, I guess. 🙂

Care to explain what's the problem further then? As I can see, you already got the almost same reply from Tomas - right here.

I totally understand that players incline to the easiest explanation - the RTP is set up, manipulated, and games are rigged... I read that almost every day. I have never experienced players proving the algorithm or games rigged, my point is that this is almost impossible. - that's all.

I wish you good luck with the complaint. 🤞

I'll give you an example, you charge 50

Bet 0.60/1 the slots give you back 20/25 euros.

You obviously never go above... but there is a "restitution". Also you replay your winnings. In total they are 75 euros replayed. You lose... you reload 50... You still win 20/25. You lose...because you didn't get a bonus/freespin or a decent pay just some bass. You lose... it's already 150 euros played. Reloads same thing .. total played 225. And so on (keep in mind that you also need to add a 20% casino bonus to each deposit). You imagine how much turnaround there is.

Pretend that the seventh reload comes a bonus free spin with x100/120 payouts.

Deposit 350

Comeback with low blows won 150

Paid freespin bonus 75

Total turnaround 575

Total win 255

I put a 50% rtp in the example.

Practically every 500 euro reversal. I can. go. positive. by 75 euro and withdraw.

You do it for 800 deposited… And lower RTP.

Even if it were 50% it wouldn't be correct. I hope I was clear

Ti faccio un esempio tu carichi 50

Bet 0.60/1 le slot ti ridanno 20/25 euro.

Tu ovviamente non vai mai sopra... ma c.e una "restituzione". Oltretutto rigiochi la vincita. In totale sono 75 euro rigiocati. Perdi... ricarichi 50... Vinci ancora 20/25. Perdi... perché non hai preso un bonus/freespin o una pagata decente solo qualche col basso. Perdi... sono già 150 euro giocati. Ricarichi stessa cosa.. totale giocati 225. E così via (tieni conto che bisogna aggiungere anche un 20% di bonus casinò ad ogni deposito). Tu immagina quanto rigiro è presente.

Fai finta che settima ricarica arriva un bonusfree spin con pagata x100/120.

Deposito 350

Ritorno con colpi bassi vinti 150

Pagata bonus freespin 75

Totale rigiro 575

Vincita totale 255

Ho messo un rtp al 50% nell esempio.

Praticamente ogni 500 euro di rigiro.posso.andare.in positivo.di 75 euro e prelevare.

Tu fallo per 800 depositati... E abbassa RTP.

Anche se fosse del 50% non sarebbe corretto. Spero di essere stato chiaro

Hello,

I guess that you should get into consideration, that buying free spins or any other additional features affects the overall RTP and volatility of each game. You have to reverse-engineer each variant to get the precise RTP and volatility.

Since this forum exists, players come and claim that the RTP in the casinos are rigged/fakes/overridden/manipulated ad so on.

Actually, the casinos do not need to do that, the math is on their side.

" EXAMPLE

If a game RTP is 96%, it means that if you start with $1,000,000,000 and then play 1,000,000,000 rounds at $1 each, then you should end up with approximately $960,000,000 dollars."

"If you play just a few hundreds rounds, your current return may vary from 30% up to 1000%. But the more rounds you play, the more likely you’ll be closer to the statistical RTP of the slot game. That’s why I used such big numbers in the example above."

I'll wait for Tomas to advance with the complaint further.

Thank you

Grazie