Rox Casino - プレイヤーのボーナスからの賞金が無効になりました。

Hello Casino Guru and Roxcasino. I want to make complaint about unfair rule in casino terms. With this rule casino took 8500 eur from my balance.

The situation

I made deposit with crypto, 350 usdt

I recevied welcome bonus offer. It is welcome bonus 100% and Welcome Spins(500 spins 0.6 eur bet)

Total amount about 670 eur are loosed. Then i come to cashier, and i see that bonus still active, and to access free spins you need to cancel welcome bonus. I do it and then Free Spins will be activated.

I won from 500 free spins about 1100 eur. Started wager and won HUGE 7000 eur in finish.

I finished verification (phone number verification, passport verification, selfie with passport verification)

I made withdraw, casino asked to confirm crypto wallet. I do it.

They i played Money Train 3 slot and won 1600 euro more.

Today my balance are cutted to deposit amount. Casino said that violated rules. Paragraph 28.2

They said about point "You can at any time opt out of receiving all or any individual bonus in the user profile. When using a compound bonus (deposit bonus and free spins), if the user cancels the first part of the compound bonus (deposit bonus), all winnings received as a result of wagering free spins are cancelled."

But we need to understand that to use free spins bonus i need to can cancel first bonus. They have rule:

"Only one bonus can be active on your account at any given time. If there are several bonuses on one account, the bonuses are activated and wagered in turn."

In this case, you need to understand that these two rules contradict each other.

I ask the casino to reconsider this situation. In this form, the bonus is "crooked". But depriving a player of such a big win is very ugly

I tryed to ask casino to resovle this situation. If they this that i avoid some wager requiremnts, to add it and return winnings. But they only copy pasted theirs rule. I think i do not do something wrong and i looking forward to see fair resolve of situation. Thanks

I want to add this text. It is copy paste from chat.

"Yes, i understand you position, but i want ask you

about Rule "Only one bonus can be active on your account at any given time. If there are several bonuses on one account, the bonuses are activated and wagered in turn"

In this case, you need to understand that these two rules contradict each other.

Corvo 12:47 PM

This rule is common to all bonuses, but in your situation, the bonus is composite, so there are no contradictions in this situation, Oleg.

Олег **** 12:48 PM

Why, then, when the first part is canceled, the second is not automatically canceled?

This confuses the players and results in situations like this

The mechanics of the site is made in such a way that I could not enter the welcome free spins until the welcome bonus was canceled.

I want to resolve this situation, i think i do not make something wrong, I hope, if you thing that i need to do some wager from deposit bonus add this wager and return my balance. i will make wager

Corvo 12:52 PM

Our website allows you to apply both parts of the bonus, without canceling any of them, you personally canceled part of the bonus. The second one was not canceled because you have completed its application.

When using a compound bonus (deposit bonus and free spins), if the user cancels the first part of the compound bonus (deposit bonus), all winnings received as a result of wagering free spins are canceled. They wrote off everything except the deposit amount.

May I help you with any others questions, Oleg?

Олег **** 12:59 PM

Okay, i want to ask you to resolve this situation, but you do not want to do it

Only by rule want to cut winnings. I udnerstand you, but i will write complaint on site Casino Guru to review this situation. I think you made unfair desition.

Corvo 01:02 PM

There is a set of rules on our website that sets out the procedure for applying bonuses, this paragraph of the rules was announced to you, you canceled the deposit part of the bonus, so the second part was debited from your account. It is possible to apply both of these bonuses on our website, there are no such difficulties. This decision was taken by you personally.

Олег **** 01:04 PM

No, i do not to this decision. I can not activated bonus

Because i entered cashier

and there i see active bonus

No any place where i can activate free spins

I am a simple player who does not know your site, I came to play and did not expect that I would be treated like this when I won

Corvo 01:08 PM

You entered the "cashier" section, and to conduct boos, you need a section to the left called "bonuses and promotions".

Олег **** 01:08 PM

Yes, i was there

And there i saw active bonus 325 eur, i can not see how to activate free spins

And only after i cancel Active Bonus, on this place i saw Free Spins

Corvo 01:11 PM

Tell me, please, did you take a screenshot of the screen at that moment, Oleg?

Are you still with me?

Олег **** 01:14 PM

Ofc i do not maked screnshot ....

I do not know that i will be tricked like that ...

Corvo 01:15 PM

Our casino is licensed and guarantees the security of our players' information and funds, as well as provides equal and fair conditions for everyone. We are not scammers. If you had this problem, you should have immediately contacted us and we would have helped you solve the problem, Oleg.

Can I help you with something else?

Олег **** 01:19 PM

Yes, but like i said. i do not know that i will be tricked like that

You know, when i came to play, i think that site works correctly, and when i can not see Free Spins. and i see that i can Cancel only deposit + bonus amount i do this

Nothing was writed about Welcomu Free Spins

Corvo 01:20 PM

In this situation, there is no deception, all the necessary information about the work of our site is publicly available and upon registration, the user agrees to the terms of use and the rules of the site.

Олег **** 01:20 PM

I understand that you have this rule, but i want to say you, that was impossible to enter free spins.

Yes, that why i say that i was tricked by you.

Corvo 01:21 PM

If you had any problem on your side, you should have contacted us for help, or provided any other information about your problem, Oleg.

If you ever have questions or need our help with the site, please, tell us in this chat.

Олег **** 01:25 PM

Nothing more. we do not find any deal in this situation, i will try to find help from Casino Guru side.

I want to ask one more question. If u do not canceled welcome bonus, what happedned when it go to zero value?

Corvo 01:29 PM

When the funds in the bonus account run out, the bonus ends its use, because the funds for its use have run out, Oleg.

Олег **** 01:31 PM

So then why you took my winnings, can not understand

I loosed welcome bonus 100% and then used welcome free spins

Sorry, you do not want to resolve this situation, I think no more questions. May be casino guru will review this situation with another verdict

Corvo 01:34 PM

You canceled your deposit bonus yourself, and when you completed the wagering of free spins, you tried to withdraw your funds, but part of the bonus was canceled by you, so the funds were debited from your account according to rule 28.2.

Олег **** 01:34 PM

So if the system will cancel zero value bonus it is okay? But when i cancel, it is reason to steal winnings?

Corvo 01:36 PM

The system cancels the bonus in case of a complete lack of funds on the bonus, did you cancel your bonus when there were zero funds, Oleg?

Олег ****01:36 PM

Yes, near to zero funds.

I can not make any bet in slot

The amount of balance was little than minimum bet size.

Corvo 01:37 PM

So no, the funds were on your bonus. If there were zero of them, the system would disable the bonus for the expiration of funds.

Олег **** 01:39 PM

So, if system cancel zero bonus, it is okay to use welcome spins. But if i cancel bonus with about 0.2 eur it is rule violating?

Corvo 01:41 PM

You have canceled the bonus with an active balance on it, the system disables the bonus after you have completely spent the funds on the bonus, Oleg.

Олег Слабкий 01:41 PM

So if system cancel bonus, it is ok. But if i cancel it with unplayeble balance it is TERMS VIOLATE?

Corvo 01:44 PM

When the system disables the bonus due to the lack of balance on it, the bonus goes to the "Lost" status, you canceled the bonus yourself, so it went to the "Canceled" status, your actions violated the rules for applying the bonus under rule 28.2.

Олег **** 01:46 PM

Yes

but my move to cancel bonus

do not changed something

Nothing

only status Lost and Canceled was changed, nothing more

But the amount was so little, i can not loosed it

Corvo 01:48 PM

Minimum bets can be made in games from the "Endorphina" provider. You could have asked us to help you find a provider's games for minimum bets, Oleg.

Олег **** 01:49 PM

Corvo i think it is absurd.

You confiscated 8500 eur, because i canceled bonus about 20 cents. But if i loosed 20 cents, it will be Lost bonus, not cancelled, and i will received my winnings then

Corvo 01:53 PM

The conditions for applying the bonus remain the same for different situations and amounts, you agreed to these rules when registering and canceled your bonus with your own hand.

Олег **** 01:54 PM

Yes, but i say about diffirence, not about this rule

It is absurd that you confiscated 8500 eur, because i do not loosed 20 cents from previos bonus, BUT CANCELED IT

Прочитано

Corvo 01:55 PM

The bonus rules work the same for different amounts and situations, Oleg."

you can see, that situation we had (like i think is absurd) is connected with little small thing. I do not loosed 20 cents but cancelled it. If i go to slots Endorphina (like said agent) and loosed there, status of bonus will be LOST. But when i canceled 20 cents status is CANCELLED.

And this is reason why 8500 eur winnings from free spins are confiscated. I think, the situation are absurd.

You need to look in detail. That when i came to Cashier, in section Bonus, i do not see how to play Free Spins. Only that why i canceled 650 eur (deposit + 100% welcomu bonus amount) Bonus, there was writen that i will cancel onl one bonus, nothing about welcome free spins cancelling., and then on it place i saw Welcome Free Spins.

In final, i had 20 cents bonus remaining. If i loosed it, status will be LOST.

I canceled it, only to start playing free spins. Now status CANCELED. In reality this do not change something. Only i thing that casino have reason to confiscate 8500 eur. I do not thinked that this casino can trick players like that.

Dear slabkyio,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

Please allow me to ask you a few questions so I better understand the situation.

What was your balance at the time you canceled the first part of the bonus? (bonus balance, real balance)

What was the process of canceling the first part of the bonus? (contacting live chat, button inside your account)

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Tomas

What was your balance at the time you canceled the first part of the bonus? (bonus balance, real balance)

My answer: I played slot, where was impposible to make bet with this small amount. It was about 0.2 eur.

What was the process of canceling the first part of the bonus? (contacting live chat, button inside your account)

My answer: In my mind, i do not want to cancel something, only find way to use free spins, i go to "Cashier", then i found section "Bonuses". After this i tryed to find how to enter free spins. But do not saw it. Only Button to cancel Bonus balance + real balance = which are connected in one amount. I push this button to cancel it. Activate bonus was cancelled. Then on this place i found new inscription "Welcome free spins", which i started used immediately.

Thank you Tomas. if you want to know any other details i will asnwer immediately. Amount about what we talking here is fantastics for me.

Thanks for your patience, slabkyio.

Do I understand correctly that it was impossible for you to set a bet to an amount equal or smaller to 0,2€ or your currency equivalent in order to deplete the bonus completely in any available slot?

When you canceled the bonus were you informed that any subsequent winnings will be forfeited?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Good day

Yes it was impossible to made bet with amount which are on my account. I can not do it.

When i canceled bonus no any messages about FREE SPINS which are on my account. Only that i cancel bonus money bonus.

I want one more time to say. I do not received any benefits when i cancelled this bonus. No diffirence in wager of free spins or something like that. I think it is unfair reason to make 8500 euro winnings to 0 euro.

Thank you very much, slabkyio, for providing the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej.n@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello slabkyio,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would like to invite the casino representative into the case:

Dear casino representative, could you please check the case and explain to us what happened?

If I understand it correctly, slabkyio lost his winnings because he, instead of losing the remaining balance of the bonus, which was €0.2, cancelled the bonus to get access to free spins.

Nice to meet you, Matej! The player broke the rules, paragraph 28.2 - You can opt out of receiving all or any individual bonus in the user profile at any time. When using a compound bonus (deposit bonus and free spins), if the user cancels the first part of the compound bonus (deposit bonus), the second part – unused free spins or winnings received as a result of wagering free spins – will also be automatically canceled.

We understand that the player couldn't find the way to activate the free spins, but it doesn't mean that it's necessary to cancel the bonus, there's support service the player can contact any time and ask for help, but the player didn't do it though there's the rule about compound bonuses.

Regarding this part of the player's complaint:

*But we need to understand that to use free spins bonus i need to can cancel first bonus. They have rule:

"Only one bonus can be active on your account at any given time. If there are several bonuses on one account, the bonuses are activated and wagered in turn."*

Our answer: That point doesn't apply to compound bonus, because compound bonus is ONE bonus which have 2 parts in it and you do not need to cancel one part, to use another. That's why we ask our players to read T&C of our site before registration and contact the support service if there're any questions, but player's do not contact the chat to ask how to use free spins, he did it only when cancel one part of the bonus, got winnings from another part and when the winnings were cancelled due to rules violation.

Best regards,

Rox Casino!

Dear Rox Casino representative,

Could you please tell me if slabkyio by cancelling the bonus, gained some unfair advantage?

I believe he didn't and even didn't try to cheat the casino. He thought that he should cancel the bonus to activate the free spins. It is a formal mistake. I agree that he breached the terms. However, he won fairly, so why punish him for only a small mistake which he made unintentionally?

Hello, Matej! Our system do not give an opportunity for the players to cancel one part of the bonus to activate the second part of the compound bonus, there is no such functionality for a composite bonus on the site. Because this is an abuse when one part of a compound bonus is canceled for any reason and the other part goes to be used without wagering the first one.

Also, want to notice that, there's separation of two parts of compoud bonus in the "Мои бонусы" section, players can check there active bonuses and active free spins and open free spins in the correct game, so it means that the player do not need to cancel the first part, because the second one activates automatically. And this player is not an exception. Eventually, the player could contact the chat.

Best wishes,

Rox Casino!

I do not received any befinit from bonus canceling, why you said about some "abuse". It is not true. I played with first part of bonus, but when i loosed it, only 0.2 $ left. I do not know where i can make bet with it, only that why i can canceled it, after canceling i do not received any benefits, same like i loosed it.. no any diference. You use formal thing to cancel winnings 🙂

Dear Rox Casino representative,

If you can't show us that the slabkyio gained some unfair advantage by cancelling the bonus, we believe that it was an honest mistake from his side, and he shouldn't be punished for that. He did not intend to defraud the casino. He just wanted to get access to free spins.

I understand he had multiple options for getting help activating the free spins, and he didn't use them.

But please also consider that after he cancelled the bonus, the free spins were given to him. We would be on the casino's side if the bonus were cancelled and he ended without free spins.

However, we believe the player didn't gain any advantage, so the justification of not paying winnings based on only what is written in the terms is insufficient.

Dear casino representative, please also consider the customer experience in this case. I can understand how slabkyio feels and why he is complaining.

Dear Matej! We are investigating the case and need more time for it.

Best wishes,

Rox Casino!

Nice to meet you! We are still investigating the case and need more time for it.

Best regards,

Rox Casino!

I wait for any reply

We would like to ask the casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

I am currently in communication with the representative from the casino and we are still in the process of discussing your situation. Kindly exercise patience.

Thanks you, i hope you will resolve this

I ask you to some information about my situation please

Hello slabkyio,

I sent you an email. We will have a call with the casino's representative on Friday, so please be patient till then.

Dear slabkyio,

I have been informed that the casino has reached out to you directly. Kindly keep us updated on the progress or outcome of the case.

I tryied to login into my account, but account is closed...

Dear player, nice to meet you! After having a meeting with Casino Guru representatives, we finalized our decision. We've been loyal brand for years and your situation is another one when we prove our company's values. We are glad to offer you the amount of your actual winnings from free spins (1160 euros) and the amount of your deposit (325 euros) which is already debited to your account.

But we kindly ask you to check our terms and conditions, bonus policy and all the information about our rules that may help to avoid such cases in future for both sides.

Do not hesitate to contact our support service via live chat to get even more information. We are available 24/7. Let our support service know that you are ready to receive the proposed amount and apply for payment.

We hope you will enjoy with your experience at Rox Casino!

Sincerely,

Rox Casino!

Okay, i agree (i can not do anything else). So i want that you open my account, now it is closed

No worries, the funds will be credited to you until the evening and the account will be unblocked, do not worry, as soon as the funds arrive, you will receive an email notification, you will also be able to contact the chat and ask for an acceleration of the withdrawal of funds, our operators will help you. Thanks for giving us a feedback so quickly, we appreciate it.

Best regards,

Rox Casino!

Dear player and Matej, the withdrawal of funds has been approved, the funds will soon be credited to the player's account, also everything is fine with the player's account for further play.

Best wishes,

Rox Casino!

thanks i recevied 1485 euro

We are currently in the process of working on the case and apologize for the delay. We are awaiting a second opinion from alternative mediators.

After we discussed this case from all perspectives, we decided to close it as unresolved with status: Against Fair Gambling Codex.

We see, in this case, the exact situation from our Fair Gambling Codex:

Point 6: Restricted bonuses (https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#restricted-bonuses)

We believe that casinos should be equipped to only give out bonuses to eligible players. If the casino is not equipped, it should let players withdraw their winnings even if they are from a country that is restricted for bonuses. In other words, once a player gets a bonus, a casino shouldn't take it away from them or confiscate any winnings that originated from that bonus (unless some other rules have been broken).

To summarize what happened:

When the player played with the bonus and ended up with €0.2, and on the game he was playing, it wasn't possible to bet this amount (too low)

So instead of finding a game (or contacting support) where he could spend this amount, the player decided to cancel the bonus so he could continue to play with free spins (the second part of the bonus)

At this point, the bonus should have been cancelled, and the player should never receive the free spins. However, because of a technical problem (which is now fixed), he received the free spins and continued to play and ended up with €1485, which he managed to wager and continued to play and was lucky enough to win €8500.

(If the player didn't cancel this bonus, he could keep all the winnings.)

However player breached this rule:

You can at any time opt out of receiving all or any individual bonus in the user profile. When using a compound bonus (deposit bonus and free spins), if the user cancels the first part of the compound bonus (deposit bonus), the second part - unused free spins or winnings received as a result of wagering free spins - will also be automatically canceled.

From our perspective, this situation is exactly what is written in our fair gambling codex point 6, because the player got a bonus which he shouldn't get. By playing with this bonus, he gained no unfair advantage or breached any other rule.

Meanwhile, the casino made a deal with the player and paid him €1485. (17.5% of the winnings) At this point, we would close the case as resolved. However, from what the player wrote, it looks like he is unhappy with the deal and accepted it only because he had no other option.

Player wrote:

"Okay, i agree (i can not do anything else). So i want that you open my account, now it is closed"

Meanwhile, we got a second opinion on this case from Max (Casinomeister), who suggested honouring a deal (which we disagreed with because of the player's response), but we liked the idea of meeting in the middle. Unfortunately, here the casino stucks with its first decision of paying the player €1485 (17.5% of total winnings)

That is the reason we decided to close this case as unresolved.

Generally, we believe that Rox Casino is a very good casino, and fixing the technical problem that occurs in no time is solid proof. However, they are strict regarding terms and conditions, and we know that casinos with perfect safety indexes would pay the full amount to this player without hesitation. Because of that, we cannot close this case as solved; however, we appreciate that the casino was trying to solve the complaint, and because of that, the penalization for this complaint is very low.