24betting Casino - プレイヤーのアカウントがブロックされました。

Dear Kishore,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked terms and conditions, and this is what I found:

"B4.4 In addition to the above we reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for 'irregular play'.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

- Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play

- Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies.

"Total bet" is defined as the sum of individual bets (Lines, chips, hands, etc) within a round, i.e. the total bet amount when clicking the "spin" or "play" or equivalent button.

In cases where a bonus was received, additional betting rules may apply as defied by the Terms and Conditions of the specific Bonus."

Please could you forward any relevant communication between you and the casino to petronela.k@casino.guru? I would like to check the exact reason why your account has been suspended. Additionally, please could you clarify if you have accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus? I hope we will help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela 

hi Petronela,

thanks for the response,

here i am clearly mentioning that i didnot play any strategy game, its impossible for anybody to say that there is strategy to win gambling, if this is the case then by now, all the players would have been billionaires,  

they are faking, and misguiding us , 24betting.com has no set of standard rules terms and conditions, if you see they keep on changing them, however, just  help me to file a cheating complaint against them so that , otherpeople wont be cheated further,

they are for sure cheaters., 

NOTE :  see this below screenshot that they have updated terms and conditions this week only, 

i doubt every week they keep on changing the terms and conditions, which i am claiming to be non standard terms.

regards

kishore

Dear Kishore,

Please could you forward any relevant communication between you and the casino to petronela.k@casino.guru? I would like to check the exact reason why your account has been suspended. Additionally, please could you clarify if you have accumulated your winnings with or without an active bonus? I hope we will help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Thank you very much Kishore for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Kishore.

From email what you sent to Petronela, I think I know where the problem is.

"B4.4 In addition to the above we reserve the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings and bonuses for 'irregular play'.

"Irregular play" includes, inter alia:

- Placing total bets equal to or greater than 30% of the value of the deposit currently in play

- Using Martingale, double-up and similar systems and strategies.

"Total bet" is defined as the sum of individual bets (Lines, chips, hands, etc) within a round, i.e. the total bet amount when clicking the "spin" or "play" or equivalent button.

In cases where a bonus was received, additional betting rules may apply as defied by the Terms and Conditions of the specific Bonus."

If your initial deposit was 12000INR then by rule 4.4 (bolted text), you can't make a bet higher than 3600INR. From your history, I can see that you made a few bets of value 10000INR.

Based on our fair gambling codex: https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#max-bets

The max bet rule should not be used to confiscate the real money winnings and players shouldn't be forced to always thinking about how much is 30% from their last deposit.  

But to be sure only this is the problem we need to give a chance to the casino to explain what happened in your case.

dear Matej,

thanks for the response, 

i understood below points

1.  player should not play >30% of the the total deposits.
2. for example - if you have lost 20000.00 in your previous games and you feel to play again and win back all the money at once , its not possible.,  as if i have 40000.00 in my account balance and if i feel confident about a game and i wanna bet all money at once , its not allowed and hence as per rule of 24betting.com ,  its irregular and they say that a player can play only small amounts ,
3.  based on this, i would wonder that  a)  total number of games played to loose for ex. 35000.00 if you want to recover player has to play exactly same number of games . like wise.
4. for example in cricket game -  2 teams play  - first team took 100balls to score 250 runs, then the 2nd team should take same 100 balls to win the  game, they cant win the game by playing less number of balls i.e. 65balls. as per 24betting.com
5. and finally,  if you look at deposit bank account name - its not in detail. they tend to change the bank account many times , pls check by creating a dummy id in 24betting.com, you will only understand.
6. Finally , there are many websites of casino, in which there is not such rule called as >30% game.  :)

thanks for your time, 

regards

kishore 

I understood your logic, but in your case, the most important is that you didn't play with a bonus. We believe that applying this 30% max bet rule to play with real money doesn't make any sense.

Imagine if some country has a rule that on the highway there would be maximum allowed speed for cars defined not as some fixed value (130km/h) but as 50% of car maximum speed. So some vehicles would be allowed to go 150km/h and some vehicles only 70km/h on the same highway. (does it makes sense?)

Each casino which has this rule in their T&C's has a lower rating, and if we find out that the casino is using this rule against the players who play with real money, we are punishing them extra. That's why this casino has a questionable reputation.

I believe they should pay you the winnings, but unfortunately, most of these casinos do not agree with our opinion.

I will do my best, but can't promise anything.

Thankyou dear matej, 

most suitable example you have given, each driver will have his own pace of driving and same as playing,  ahahahaha.

24betting is afraid and cheatpeople by taking deposits. this should not be ignored and there is account information which is also questionable. pls review.

we both know that this 24betting  would not agree with us to pay us back my winning bet money, however we shall put this casino under REDALERT  for new players,  this will surely make otherplayers a good guiding factor.

thankyou,

note : can you suggest complaints mail ids so that we can post this complaint to them.

Because the casino is not registered in our system yet, I am communicating with them through emails.

They accused you from using Martingale which is forbidden by their T&C's and also that you were pretending to be a member of the Bangalore City Police department. They also point out that they returned you all the deposits. Could you please confirm this? So far, they didn't provide any evidence. I continue to investigate the case. 

Did 24betting return my deposits ?  

Answer : No - They are telling lies, they have not returned my deposits

Did i complain to Bangalore city police dept ?  

Answer : officially i have not done it yet, but i have informed about the issue to them. 

if this issue is not resolved, i will officially put a complaint to cyber crime police so that this website will be put under spam or fraud website, so that all india players will be carefully to play in this 24bettting website.

Note / Cross verification on the deposits return.

Ask 24betting to give a proof of deposits returned to my account.  it will be clear then. 

Martingale is a betting strategy which is forbidden in some casinos. (in this one too)

more info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system)

I am still waiting on their reply but based on our fair gambling codex ( https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos ), we believe that applying such rules doesn't make sense. Yes, in short-run player can get some money but in case of too many losses in a row, the player loses all his capital. None of the big brands forbids this pattern because they know that it doesn't make sense.

We are now stuck in argumentation about some games which are typical for India (and very popular) but even there the theoretical RTP is 95% which is still not an excuse to use such a rule.

Thanks Matej,

i know that these people are tossing some kind of meaningless rules.

i have an example here :

first bet : 10000.00 loss

second bet : 20000.00 loss

third bet : 40000.00 loss

fourth bet : 80000.00 win lets say this is martingale game.

so the player should have 150000.00 ready deposit in his account - otherwise he can play a double bet every time he looses,

in my case i always played with a deposit of 12000.00 , 10000.00 and some times 8000.00

then, how will the martingale apply , god knows. any way if this 24betting still does not agree to return my bet win money, then you can guide me so that i will raise a complaint against them in their country only.

by the way , 24betting belongs to which country, can you pls tell me more about 24betting site.

regards

kishore

You would be surprised, but the 24betting is now focusing on the Indian market. (probably people who own it are from India too) the website was rebranded recently. 

Unfortunately, they are communicating only via emails, so it is more time-consuming. 

I can show you my last email where I was explaining to them that any betting patterns don't make sense and none of the big brands uses them as an excuse not to pay the winning.

From my email:

"About Andar Bahar (I did my homework – didn’t know this game before) the game has theoretical RTP of 95%which is lower than many slots and much lower than Bacarrat and some variants of Poker.

About Martingale – this strategy work only in the case that you have an unlimited money supply.

In short-run some people can get some profit, but when they reached a few losses in line, they lose all. (they will not be able to cover next double)

Let me explain: if I bet 1 euro and win in 3rd round I need to make a 4 euro bet, and I will get 1 euro.

If I would be unlucky and win in 10th round my bet would be 512 euro, and I still earn 1 euro. So yes in short-run there would be some winnings and then come to a significant loss. Ask the mathematician, not lawyer what he thinks about Martingale. Anyway, most of the people don’t even know what Martingale is. They just develop this strategy by their logic thinks how they beat the casino and eventually will lose a lot."

From our fair gambling codex:

https://casino.guru/fair-gambling-codex-for-casinos#betting-patterns

Our recommendation is quite simple: Don't use betting patterns as an excuse not to pay out winnings to players.

I am still waiting for their response.

Dear Matej,

Thanks for the commitment you display towards this issue.

and Betting patterns wont work as far as i know, as no body knows when the patterns win or loose, what is the position of a player if he keeps on doubling the bet, its foolishness,

and the big casinos know this, this 24betting.com is a bankrupt casino i feel, just for 40000.00 they are spoiling their reputation. imagine if someone wins lakhs of rupees and these guys fail to repay winning money.

anyway there are laws to protect players.

regards

kishore P

We will see what they reply to me - They are new, just start working, and this is a perfect opportunity to choose a side - be good and fair or operates in the grey area and use dodgy tactics. I hope they choose well.

ok

exactly - if they choose to be fair, then they will have good casino run otherwise , their reputation will have to be questioned.

thanks

We would like to ask the 24betting Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

We are were sorry Kishore, but for more than two weeks, we didn't receive any response from the casino.

From our email conversation is it clear that they accused you from using a Martingale.

We had a discussion about it, and based on our fair gambling codex, we do not accept this reason as justified to confiscate the winnings. Because of this, we decided to close the complaint as unresolved with classification: "Against Fair Gambling Codex."

We’ve reopened this complaint as per the player’s request. Kishore informed us via email that his complaint was successfully resolved and he found a satisfactory conclusion. Therefore we are decided to reclassify this complaint as resolved.