20Bet Casino - プレイヤーの賞金は没収されました。

Hello, my name is Rosa and I'm writing now as I have just discovered this forum.

In February 2024, I had a problem with this casino. I deposited €500 using a Revolut card that is jointly owned by my son and me. After several plays, I won the sum of €8500.

I tried to withdraw my winnings and the casino started causing issues, questioning the verification of the card ownership. Since the jointly owned Revolut account operates in such a way that each owner has their own card but it remains a JOINT account, the card used was my son's operative card but still jointly owned by both of us.

The casino rejected every document I sent, even accusing me of altering them. Several months have passed, and I've written numerous emails, but the casino keeps responding that a final decision has been made and they refuse to discuss it further. It seems strange to me; obviously, these are tactics to avoid paying the substantial €8500 winnings.

I ask for your help, thank you.

Salve, mi chiamo Rosa e scrivo soltanto ora poiché ho appena scoperto questo forum.

A febbraio 2024 ho avuto un problema con questo casino, ho depositato con una carta revolut cointestata a mio figlio e a me 500€, dopo varie giocate ho vinto la somma di 8500€.

Ho provato a prelevare le vincite ed il casino ha cominciato a creare problemi, sulla verifica della proprietà della carta. Siccome in pratica il conto revolut cointestato funziona in modo che ogni intestatario ha la sua carta operativa che resta comunque COINTESTATA, la carta utilizzata era operativa di mio figlio ma comunque cointestata ad entrambi.

Il casino ha rifiutato ogni tipo di documento che ho inviato, addirittura contestando il fatto che questo fosse stato modificato. Sono passati diversi mesi dove ho scritto innumerevoli email e il casino risponde che è stata presa una decisione definitiva in merito e non vogliono più discuterne. A me sembra strano, ovviamente sono modi per non pagare la vincita onerosa di 8500€.

Chiedo aiuto a voi, grazie

Dear Limonedag97,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the terms and conditions, and this is what I found:

14. DEPOSITING

20bet does not accept third-party payments. You must make deposits only from a bank account, or using VISA/MasterCard bank cards, payment systems Skrill/NETELLER, or other payment methods registered in your own name. If we determine during the security checks that you have violated this condition, then your winnings will be confiscated and the original deposit will be returned to the owner of the payment account; 20bet also is not responsible for the lost funds deposited from third party accounts. 

Furthermore, please check our Fair Gambling Codex for Players: 

"For deposits and withdrawals, you should only use bank accounts and credit cards held in your own name. If you don't do this, you might get into trouble when trying to make a withdrawal. This rule is mostly in place to prevent credit card misuse and also because of international anti-money-laundering regulations." 

Please understand that this rule has been breached. Some exceptions might be allowed by casinos when depositing or withdrawing funds using a joint account or this possibility is communicated beforehand. However, even in the case of joint accounts, the player should always deposit with a card issued in their own name. Technically it is very difficult to check who’s the owner of the payment method at the depositing stage. This can be checked only during the account verification, which is usually done when a withdrawal is requested. Therefore, it is a player’s responsibility to use allowed payment methods only. 

If you’re not able to prove that you are a legitimate owner of the payment method and you haven’t received approval from the casino allowing you to use a third-party payment method, I’m afraid there’s not much we can do for you. 

Thank you very much in advance for your reply and understanding. 

Best regards, 

Veronika

Hi, yes, but the casino specifically asked me if the card was in a joint name, since if it were, the winnings would be credited. I sent any type of document certifying that the card is in the name of me and my son, but they refuse it.

Salve , si, ma il casinò mi ha espressamente richiesto se la carta fosse cointestata, poiché nel caso lo fosse stata la vincita sarebbe stata accreditata. Io ho inviato qualsiasi tipo di documento che attesti che la carta sia intestata a me e a mio figlio, ma loro lo rifiutano.

Could you please specify whose name is on the card you used for depositing into the casino? Is it your name, or your son's name?

Dear Limonedag97,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Hi, sorry, I didn't realize the answer. The name on the card is not there since it is a virtual card, there is the card statement which is in my name and in the name of my son.

Salve chiedo scusa non mi ero accorta della risposta . Il nome sulla carta non c'è siccome trattasi di carta virtuale, c'è l'estratto conto della carta che è a nome mio e a nome di mio figlio.

Could you please send me the documents showing that the Revolut account belongs to both you and your son? Also, include all the communication between you and the casino customer support as well as any other evidence that could be relevant to the investigation of your case. My email address is veronika.l@casino.guru. Thank you.

Dear Limonedag97,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Hello, yes I will send all necessary documents to your email address. I think I should succeed tomorrow, thank you

Salve, si invierò tutti i documenti necessari all'indirizzo email. Credo nella giornata di domani debba riuscirci, grazie

Have you sent any emails to me? I have not yet received anything.

Hi Veronica, I'm collecting the latest useful documents and sending you everything. Thanks for the arrangement

Ciao veronica sto raccogliendo gli ultimi documenti utili e ti invio tutto. Grazie per la disposizione

I have still not received anything from you. Could you please inform me if you have the necessary documents ready? I need the proof of payment that you already sent to the casino as well as the email communication or chat transcripts between you and customer support. Please forward the original files to veronika.l@casino.guru. Without sufficient evidence from your side, we will be unable to continue with the investigation.

Hi, yes, I have the documents ready. I will send the email shortly, I apologize but unfortunately I was on holiday in a place with poor internet connection

Salve si, ho i documenti pronti. A breve invierò la mail, chiedo scusa ma purtroppo ero in vacanza in un posto con scarsa connessione internet

I haven't received any documents from you yet. I'm sorry, but I have to close this complaint because there isn't enough evidence provided from your side. Thank you for understanding, and I'm sorry we couldn't be of more help this time. If you gather all the necessary documents, please request a reopening of this complaint.

Thank you very much, Limonedag97, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Limonedag97,

I'm Michal, and I have taken over your complaint. I have reviewed your case including the evidence you have provided us and I will contact the casino to see if I can help.

We would like to invite 20Bet Casino to join the conversation.

Dear 20Bet Casino,  

I understand that it is customary within the industry for players to make deposits exclusively from accounts or payment methods that are registered in their own name, such as bank accounts or VISA/MasterCard cards, as well as payment systems like Skrill and NETELLER. However, the player has presented documentation regarding a joint Revolut account, which I believe should be considered valid. If the player has not yet submitted this evidence, I would be happy to forward it to you. I kindly request that you review it and reconsider your decision.

Of course they will never answer! Because this win they do not want to pay the! In case, can you assist me to proceed with legal action?

Ovviamente non risponderanno mai! Perché questa vincita non vogliono pagare la! Nel caso, sapete assistermi per procedere nelle vie legali?

Hello!

We are sorry that the player has encountered such a situation. Unfortunately, in this case, our rule related to the use of a third-party account or card was violated. The player's admission that he used his son's card is recorded in the email correspondence. We are prepared to provide all necessary documents and evidence to refute any allegations in this case.

If you have any further questions or require additional information, please let us know.

Thank you for the response, 20Bet Casino Team.

Dear Limonedag97,

Could you please clarify whether the funds you deposited in the casino using the Revolut card were sourced from a recharge made by you or by your son?

Hello, the funds were deposited into a joint REVOLUT account, from MY ATM (the ATM here in Italy is the debit card linked to the current account, where the money is) linked to my bank account; then from the Revolut account with a prepaid card JOINTLY IN THE NAMES OF ME AND MY SON I made the deposit into the 20bet casino.

I use this procedure almost always, for any type of online purchase so as not to risk disclosing my ATM data.

Salve i fondi sono stati depositati su un conto REVOLUT congiunto, dal MIO BANCOMAT ( il bancomat qui in Italia è la carta di debito collegata al conto corrente, dove sono presenti i soldi ) collegato al mio conto bancario ; dopodiché dal conto Revolut con una carta prepagata COINTESTATA A ME E A MIO FIGLIO ho effettuato il deposito sul casino 20bet.

Uso questo procedimento quasi sempre, per qualsiasi tipo di acquisto online in modo da non rischiare di divulgare i dati del mio Bancomat.

Thank you for the response, Limonedag97.

Please forward me the statement from your MY ATM account where the recharge to the joint REVOLUT account is visible at michal.k@casino.guru

Of course, since my bank provides me with a quarterly statement, can I hide the other movements and items on the statement since they are sensitive data?

Certo, siccome la mia banca mi fornisce dell'estratto conto trimestrale, posso oscurare gli altri movimenti e le altre voci presenti sull'estratto conto in quanto trattasi di dati sensibili?

Dear Limonedag97,

I understand your concerns. However, it is essential that all statements remain in their original, unedited form; otherwise, they may not be recognized as valid evidence, complicating any future negotiations with the casino team. Please be assured that we prioritize your privacy, and all your information is securely protected. Access is limited to only those directly involved in the resolution process.

Hi Michal, I have sent you the requested information via email. I have also attached the transaction documents from my bank account to revolut and from my revolut account to my revolut-joint account. I have also attached screenshots of the transaction from my revolut app. Thanks

Ciao Michal, ti ho inviato quanto richiesto via e-mail. Ho allegato anche i documenti della transazione dal mio conto corrente a revolut e dal mio conto revolut al mio conto revolut-congiunto. Ho allegato anche degli screenshot della transazione dalla mia app revolut. Grazie

Dear Limonedag97,

I appreciate your email and confirm that I have successfully received it along with all the attachments. I have contacted the casino team and will maintain communication with them to work towards a resolution for your case.

Perfect, think Michal I even offered to give my Revolut account login details to the casino so they could check the transaction themselves. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks

Perfetto, pensa Michal che mi ero anche offerta di fornire i dati di accesso del mio conto Revolut al casino in modo da poter controllare loro stessi la transazione. Resto in attesa di tue notizie. Grazie

Hello, Michal!

We have sent you a clarification on this case in your email. If you have any further questions or require additional information, please do not hesitate to contact us. We are always ready to help and provide all the necessary support.

Thank you for your attention!

Sorry 20bet casino, but after showing you with my bank statement the exit of € 500 paid into the revolut account, after presenting the official revolut document of the p2p payment from a personal revolut account to a joint account, after presenting the official revolut document of the transaction from the joint card to your casino20bet what else do you want me to do? There is no need for any clarification, I have provided all the necessary official documents YOU MUST credit me with the winnings and stop looking for excuses not to pay! I do not deny that this situation is leading me to a CERTIFIED mental imbalance. Do you prefer to resolve the matter in court? Or maybe that is exactly where you want to get to having the registered office in curacao. This is about common sense, after having demonstrated the origin of the funds which are MY PROPERTY there is no need for anything else simply common sense and CREDIT ME WITH THE WINNINGS

Scusami 20bet casinò, ma dopo averti mostrato con estratto conto della mia banca l'uscita di €500 versati su conto revolut, dopo aver presentato documento ufficiale revolut ti pagamento p2p da conto personale revolut a conto congiunto, dopo aver presentato documento ufficiale Revolut della transazione dalla carta congiunta al vostro casino20bet cos'altro volete che faccia? Non c'è bisogno di alcun chiarimento, ho fornito di tutti i documenti ufficiali necessari DOVETE accreditarmi la vincita e finirla di cercare scuse per non pagare! Non nego che questa situazione mi sta portando ad uno squilibrio mentale CERTIFICATO. Preferite risolvere la questione in tribunale? O forse è proprio lì che volete arrivare avendo la sede legale in curacao. Qui si tratta di buon senso, dopo aver dimostrato la provenienza dei fondi che sono di MIA PROPRIETÀ non c'è bisogno di nient'altro semplicemente buon senso e ACCREDITARMI LA VINCITA

Dear Limonedag97,

Can you please confirm if anyone from your household or family had their accounts closed in an online casino due to gambling issues? If so, can you please specify who and when? You can forward this information to me via email if you prefer.

Hi Michal, in my family at home there is currently me and my minor daughter who therefore cannot play. Unfortunately this is a question I cannot answer because I cannot know if my other two children have had closed accounts. However, I do not understand the logical connection. Thanks

Ciao Michal nella mia famiglia a casa attualmente siamo io e mia figlia minorenne che quindi non può giocare. Questa purtroppo è una domanda alla quale non so risponderti in quanto non posso sapere se gli altri miei due figli hanno avuto account chiusi. Non capisco comunque il nesso logico . Grazie

Dear Limonedag97,

My previous question was based on some findings by the casino team that suggest your account might be linked to an account that was closed due to potential gambling addiction issues. The casino team cannot disclose all the information to us about your account without your explicit permission, so we cannot confirm if the above issue really has any relevance to your situation.

Can you please publicly confirm that we have your consent to receive any and all information in regard to your 20Bet account that will assist us in addressing your complaint effectively?

Excuse me Michal with all due respect but we have gone from the alleged payment with a card not in my name to me now the new 'excuse' is a connection with a closed account. Doesn't this situation seem absurd to you? Doesn't it seem to you that the casino is trying everything to avoid paying the winnings? It is likely that my son had an account with the casino, but what does this have to do with me? If my son commits a murder, who goes to jail, he or I?

Scusami Michal con tutto il rispetto ma siamo passati dal presunto pagamento con carta non intestata a me adesso la nuova 'scusa' è un collegamento con un account chiuso. Non ti sembra assurda questa situazione? Non ti sembra che il casino le stia provando tutte per non pagare la vincita? È probabile che mio figlio aveva un conto con il casino, ma questo cosa c'entra con me? Se mio figlio commette un omicidio in galera chi ci va lui o io?

Dear Limonedag97,

I acknowledge your message; however, I am unable to ascertain the relevance of the casino team's statement to your account without additional information requiring your consent. It is not uncommon for casinos to take precautionary measures by flagging or closing the accounts of relatives if a specific player has their account terminated due to gambling-related issues or addiction. There have been instances where individuals with gambling problems have utilized the accounts of their relatives without their knowledge, as well as cases involving shared-joint payment methods. Consequently, it is standard practice for casinos to flag accounts that appear suspicious. As the casino team has communicated to you via email, it was noted that "the rule regarding the use of a third-party account or card was violated. The player's admission of using his son's card is documented in the email correspondence." In the absence of additional information, we are unable to either confirm or deny this issue. To properly address your complaint, we kindly request your consent. Without it, we regret to inform you that we will be unable to proceed and will have to close your complaint.

Hi Michal, of course, you have my consent.

Ciao Michal certo, hai il mio consenso .

Dear Limonedag97,

I apologize for the delay in my response. I was waiting for further information from the casino representative; however, I have been informed that they are currently out of the office and will return on Monday. Regrettably, since your case is managed by this specific individual, we must wait until next week in hopes of making some progress. I recognize that this situation is not ideal, unfortunately, the only course of action at this time is to wait. I appreciate your understanding.

They need time to invent NEW EXCUSES . Thanks for your commitment and availability Michal

Hanno bisogno di tempo per inventare NUOVE SCUSE . grazie per il tuo impegno e la tua disponibilità Michal

Hello!

We will get back to you shortly with the information regarding this matter. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Dear Limonedag97,  

I would like to provide you with a brief update. I have obtained further information from the casino team. I have shared our viewpoint regarding the situation and am currently exploring options to reach a consensus with the casino team that will be acceptable to all parties involved.

Alright Michal, I'll wait to hear from you then. If you need any clarification, don't hesitate to ask me. Thanks

Va bene Michal, resto in attesa di tue notizie allora. Se dovessi avere bisogno di ogni tipo di chiarimento non esitare a chiedermelo. Grazie

Dear Limonedag97,  

Could you kindly confirm the date on which you officially became the co-owner of the joint Revolut account and cards alongside your son Antonio? Furthermore, as you possess a Revolut account solely in your name, I would appreciate clarification on your decision to utilize the joint Revolut account card for making a deposit at the casino.

Hello, since the account is currently not in operation, I asked Revolut support directly regarding the opening date of the joint account and they told me that the date is 09/13/2023, unfortunately I closed the chat and forgot to request a transcript of the chat, if it should be useful as proof I can ask it again in the chat to support and provide you with proof with the transcript of the chat.

As for the use of the joint card, as already mentioned it is my practice on these foreign casino sites, therefore not Italian, to transfer the money to the joint account since the balance is always equal to 0 and then make the payment with a prepaid card so as not to disclose the data of my cards connected to my personal account where there is always a positive balance. I would like to point out that in my opinion the reason for using one card rather than another is not relevant since what matters is that it is registered to me. For further clarification Michal I remain at your disposal and thank you for the time dedicated.

Salve siccome attualmente il conto non è in funzione ho chiesto direttamente all'assistenza di revolut per quanto riguarda la data di apertura del conto cointestato e mi hanno detto che la data è 13/09/2023 purtroppo ho chiuso la chat e ho dimenticato di richiedere una trascrizione della chat, se dovesse essere utile come prova potrò chiederlo nuovamente in chat all'assistenza e fornirvi di una prova con la trascrizione della chat.

Per quanto riguarda l'uso della carta cointestata, come già detto è mia prassi su questi siti di casino esteri, quindi non italiani, trasferire i soldi sul conto cointestato visto che il saldo è sempre uguale a 0 per poi effettuare il pagamento con carta prepagata in modo da non divulgare i dati delle mie carte collegate al mio conto personale dove c'è sempre un saldo positivo. Ci tengo a precisare che secondo me il motivo dell'utilizzo di una carta piuttosto che un'altra non è rilevante in quanto quello che conta è che sia intestata a me. Per ulteriori chiarimenti Michal resto a tua disposizione e ti ringrazio per il tempo dedicato.

Dear Limonedag97, 

Yes please, I would appreciate it if you could obtain confirmation from the Revolut team regarding the date of your co-ownership of the joint Revolut account and cards with your son. Please forward that information to me at your earliest convenience.

I'm out for two days for work, as soon as I can I'll contact support and forward everything to you. Thanks!

Si sono fuori due giorni per lavoro, non appena riesco contatto l'assistenza e ti giro tutto. Grazie!