Betonic Casino - 自己排除に失敗しました。

This casino allowed me to log in a second time with the exact same data, even though my account was closed due to gambling addiction. In the email confirming the closure due to gambling addiction, the provider wrote to me:

"In the event that a customer circumvents our systems to avoid detection, we will not be held liable for subsequent decisions to gamble and your deposits and any winnings or losses incurred will stand."

Since I cannot control my addiction, I took this as an opportunity to open another account. All that was needed was a new email address.

With this account I lost another € 2,000. The provider then informed me that, contrary to what it said in the email, I would not have received any possible winnings, as only one account is allowed. My account was closed reluctantly. One does not want to reimburse the stakes anyway.

Dieses Casino hat mir, obwohl mein Konto wegen Spielsucht geschlossen war, eine zweite Anmeldung mit den exakt gleichen Daten ermöglicht. In der Mail, in der die Schließung wegen Spielsucht bestätigt wurde, schrieb der Anbieter mir:

"In the event that a customer circumvents our systems to avoid detection, we will not be held liable for subsequent decisions to gamble and your deposits and any winnings or losses incurred will stand."

Dies habe ich, da ich meine Sucht nicht unter Kontrolle habe, zum Anlass genommen, ein weiteres Konto zu eröffnen. Dafür war nur eine neue E-Mail Adresse nötig.

Mit diesem Konto habe ich weitere 2.000 € verloren. Der Anbieter teilte mir daraufhin mit, dass ich, anders als es in der E-Mail heißt, keine möglichen Gewinne erhalten hätte, da nur ein Konto erlaubt ist. Mein Konto hat man nur widerwillig geschlossen. Man wolle die Einsätze trotzdem nicht erstatten.

Dear Stefan,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Could you please forward any relevant communication related to the closure of your first account? My email address is petronela.k@casino.guru.

Ideally, please forward personal details of both accounts. I would like to make sure that exactly the same credentials have been used during the registration. Was any of your accounts successfully verified in the past?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

I uploaded the screenshots when I submitted the complaint. I will forward further emails. I can no longer access both accounts. Exactly the same data was used. I didn't have to verify myself.

Die Screenshots habe ich hochgeladen, beim Einreichen der Beschwerde. Weitere E-Mails leite ich weiter. Auf beide Konten kann ich nicht mehr zugreifen. Es wurden exakt die gleichen Daten genutzt. Ich habe mich nicht verifizieren müssen.

Thank you, Stefan, for your emails.

Could you please confirm the following timeline?

• 07. Nov. 2021 07:27

Email received from the casino in which they congratulated you on opening a new account with them.

• Nov 7, 2021, 10:25 GMT+2

You have informed the casino that you wish to self-exclude and that you have had another account with them previously.

• Nov 7, 2021, 14:50 GMT+2

Confirmation about successful self-exclusion received.

Could you please advise when you have deposited funds into your account?

The first account was already closed due to gambling addiction when I was able to open another. I did that because the following was clearly written in the email:

"In the event that a customer circumvents our systems to avoid detection, we will not be held liable for subsequent decisions to gamble and your deposits and any winnings or losses incurred will stand."

It was said that all winnings would remain. I then thought to myself that I can open a new account or try it. It worked and I lost another $ 2,000 after the account was opened. Then I inquired in the chat, which said that the money would not have been paid out in any case. That means I couldn't win at all. I have sent you all the e-mails about this. After closing the first account, I logged in again with exactly the same data and could lose € 2,000.

Das erste Konto war bereits wegen Spielsucht geschlossen, als ich ein weiteres öffnen konnte. Das habe ich gemacht, da in der E-Mail eindeutig folgendes geschrieben war:

"In the event that a customer circumvents our systems to avoid detection, we will not be held liable for subsequent decisions to gamble and your deposits and any winnings or losses incurred will stand."

Es hieß, dass alle winnings bestehen bleiben würden. Ich dachte mir dann, dass ich ein neues Konto öffnen kann, bzw. es versuche. Es klappte und ich verlor weitere 2.000 €, nachdem das Konto eröffnet war. Anschließend habe ich mich im Chat erkundigt, der sagte, dass das Geld in jedem Fall nicht ausbezahlt worden wäre. D.h. ich konnte gar nicht gewinnen. Alle E-Mails dazu habe ich Ihnen gesendet. Nach der Schließung des ersten Kontos habe ich mich mit den exakt gleichen Daten nochmals angemeldet und 2.000 € verlieren können.

Could you please advise when you have deposited funds into your account? If your cashier history is not accessible anymore, could you please forward your bank statement showing the deposit transactions? There was a 4-hour gap between your message to casino and the successful self-exclusion, is that correct?

I sent. The deposits clearly show that I was able to deposit well after the email that my account was closed. I just opened a new account with the same details! There were more than 4 hours in between! As a gambler, you have to understand the e-mail in such a way that another account can be opened without any problems. So I had to try that and the registration worked again with the exact same data, despite the addiction stored.

Habe ich gesendet. Die Einzahlungen belegen deutlich, dass ich auch weit nach der E-Mail, mein Konto sei geschlossen, einzahlen konnte. Ich habe einfach ein neues Konto eröffnet, mit den gleichen Daten! Dazwischen lagen weit mehr als 4 Stunden! Als spielsüchtiger muss man die E-Mail auch so verstehen, dass eine weitere Kontenöffnung ohne Probleme möglich ist. Das musste ich daher versuchen und die Anmeldung klappte mit den exakt gleichen Daten, trotz hinterlegter Sucht, nochmals.

Dear Stefan,

All the transactions from the forwarded bank statement have been placed between 6/11/2021 20:00 - 7/11/2021 10:47. Is that correct?

It should be like that

Das sollte so sein

So all of them have been placed before you informed the casino about your gambling problem. Is there any relevant communication regarding the closure of your first account?

I passed them on to you! If my account is on 11/6 is closed and I then have a new account on November 7th. then how can the payments supposedly have all been made before the closure?

Obviously these are on November 7th. after the closure takes place.

I just can't get rid of the feeling that in such cases all you want to do is collect the affiliate income. You don't care about anything else. Since you receive 50% of the losses from me, you don't seem to want to evaluate the case properly.

I have passed the corresponding mail on again. So I have on November 6th. received confirmation that my account is closed. On November 7th I then opened another account because the provider clearly emphasized that this is possible despite the addiction.

Die habe ich Ihnen doch weitergeleitet! Wenn mein Konto am 6.11. geschlossen ist und ich dann mit einem neuen Konto am 7.11. einzahlen kann, wie können die Zahlungen dann angeblich alle vor der Schließung erfolgt sein?

Offensichtlich sind diese am 7.11. nach der Schließung erfolgt.

Ich werde einfach das Gefühl nicht los, dass Sie in solchen Fällen einfach nur die Affiliate Einnahmen kassieren wollen. Alles andere ist Ihnen egal. Da Sie 50 % der Verluste von mir erhalten, wollen Sie den Fall scheinbar gar nicht richtig bewerten.

Ich habe die entsprechende Mail noch einmal weitergeleistet. Demnach habe ich am 6.11. die Bestätigung erhalten, mein Konto sei zu. Am 7.11. habe ich dann ein weiteres Konto eröffnet, da der Anbieter deutlich betont hat, dass dies trotz Sucht möglich ist.

I’m truly sorry that you feel this way. However, if you go through any of our numerous cases, you’ll see that we do the same with all the complaints. We collect as much information as possible. Of course, it may happen that we ask the same thing twice sometimes, as the obvious thing for the complainer is not as apparent to us. Only you have all the details and we’re sorry if we ask the same things but connecting dots of any case is not an easy task.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Andrej who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

If I can log in the second time with the exact same data, even though the first account is closed due to gambling addiction, then that's not fair. I lost € 2,000 in the process. The whole Bellona nV works like that and the casino has such a good rating with you? Fascinating. Can you please contact the casino.

Wenn ich mich mit den exakt gleichen Daten das zweite Mal anmelden kann, obwohl das erste Konto wegen Spielsucht geschlossen ist, dann ist das nicht fair. Ich habe dabei 2.000 € verloren. Die ganze Bellona n.V. arbeitet so und das Casino hat so ein gutes Rating bei euch? Faszinierend. Könnt ihr das Casino bitte kontaktieren.

Dear Stefan,

I have read through your complaint as well as the forwarded e-mail and I understand the situation. I’ll contact the casino and try my best to resolve the issue.

I would like to invite Betonic Casino to join this conversation.

Dear Betonic Casino team,

Please provide a statement on Stefan’s complaint. Any relevant evidence can be forwarded to andrej.p@casino.guru.

The casino has now written to me and asked me if I don't want to continue to open my account despite my searches. They also tell me specifically that I can open a new account with just one changed detail. I will now forward your email directly. An extremely greedy casino. Gambling addicts like me are specifically hunted down

Das Casino hat mich nun angeschrieben und mich gefragt, ob ich mein Konto nicht doch, trotzeiner sucht weiter öffnen will. Zudem teilen sie mir gezielt mit, dass ich mit nur einem geänderten Detail ein neues Konto öffnen kann. Email leite ich nun direkt weiter. Ein extrem gierig agierendes Casino. Es wird gezielt Jagd auf Spielsüchtige wie mich gemacht

Thank you, Stefan, for providing the additional information. I’m sorry to hear that. We believe that since you’ve already informed the casino about your gambling addiction, once you were allowed to create another account and the casino became aware of it, your new account should have been automatically excluded.

Please be informed that we’ve already got in touch with the casino representative. We’re currently awaiting their statement on your case.

All Bellona nv casinos operate this way. I was specifically triggered to register at other casinos from them. The rating you give this obvious scam casino is a cheek. You just want to earn money on the fraud. You see, they don't even answer. Please warn everyone so that no other user registers there and falls for them. In the forwarded mail it becomes clear that despite gambling addiction, they would like to continue to have me as a customer.

Alle Bellona n.v. Casinos agieren so. Ich wurde gezielt getriggert mich bei weiteren Casinos von denen zu registrieren. Die Bewertung, die ihr diesem offensichtlichen Scam Casino gebt, ist eine Frechheit. Ihr wollt einfach nur an dem Betrug mit verdienen. Ihr seht ja, die antworten nicht einmal. Warnt doch bitte alle, damit kein weiterer Nutzer sich dort registriert und auf die reinfällt. In der weitergeleiteten Mail wird deutlich, dass sie mich trotz Spielsucht gerne weiter als Kunde haben wollen.

Dear Stefan,

The issue has not yet been discussed in detail, however, we're expecting the casino to provide a statement soon. Therefore, I'm extending the timer by 7 days.

They will not answer because they are targeting gambling addicts. I forwarded the email to you in which you even explicitly asked me to reopen the account. The provider is criminal from my point of view, like the entire Bellona bv I have signed up for cloning of them in the last few days and only lost. That's why they advertise me so much. I am looking forward to the significant lowering of the rating of this casino and all of its associations. Your life will be ruined when you work so deliberately with obvious scammers. Fortunately, everyone here reads that the casino does not want to reimburse anything, even though it has disregarded clear responsible gambling principles.

Die werden nicht antworten, weil die gezielt Spielsüchtige ansprechen. Ich habe euch die Mail weitergeleitet, in der man mich sogar explizit gebeten hat das Konto wieder zu öffnen. Der Anbieter ist aus meiner Sicht kriminell, wie die gesamte Bellona b.v. ich habe mich in den letzten Tagen bei clonen von denen angemeldet und nur verloren. Deswegen werben die so um mich. Ich freue mich auf die deutliche Herabsenkung der Bewertung dieses Casino und aller Verbunde. Ihr ruiniert leben, wenn ihr so gezielt mit offensichtlichen Betrügern zusammenarbeitet. Zum Glück liest hier jeder mit, dass das Casino nichts erstatten will, obwohl man klare responsible gambling Prinzipien missachtet hat.

It doesn't seem to me that the casino is really answering. That I can log in with the exact same data, although my account was closed due to gambling addiction, seems to me somehow to be on purpose. It would only be fair if the provider reimbursed my losses.

Es scheint mir nicht so, als würde das Casino wirklich antworten. Das ich mich mit den exakt gleichen Daten anmelden kann, obwohl mein Konto wegen Spielsucht geschlossen wurde, scheint mir doch irgendwie Absicht zu sein. Es wäre nur fair, wenn der Anbieter meine Verluste erstattet.

Hi Casino Guru representatives & Stefan,

Thanks for your updates.

We'll gather more information about the player's case and will provide a statement shortly today.

Thank you for your patience In advance.

Kind Regards,

The Betsonic Casino Team

Hi all,

Thanks for the update and the patience.

We've managed to go all through your account at Betonic and as per our records, we would like to share the following statement.

According to our license (Betonic is owned and operated by Bellona N.V., a company registered and established under Law of Curacao, with registration number 120860 and registered address at Heelsumstraat 51, E-commerce Park, Curacao. Bellona NV is licensed and regulated by Antillephone N.V, under License No 8048/JAZ2010-010. In certain jurisdictions, Bellona NV is using Arzella Limited (a company incorporated under the laws of Cyprus with a registered address at Chytron 30, 2nd floor, Office A22, 1075 Nicosia, Cyprus) as a payment agent. All payments related to Paysafe will be processed by Bellona N.V.) and your request of self-exclusion, your account was excluded immediately on 07-11-2021. It seems though that you've somehow managed to bypass our system and with slightly different details to open 2nd account on the Betonic website.

Please, note that according to our system preferences, even 1 word/symbol/number is considered as different account details, that's why the system lets you create a new account. Our statement remains final and the number of deposits is not subject to a refund.

The above-mentioned was discussed with the casino's high management and remains final.

Kind Regards,

The Betonic Casino Team

I just had to change my email address. @Casinoguru: That is exactly what I have emphasized over and over again. Unfortunately, they have a system.

I would also like to point out once again that I was asked by email to reopen the account even after self-exclusion. This email is at Casinoguru. Player protection is obviously not in the interest of this casino at all if you have a new account with just one different information, with which you don't even get paid out winnings.

Please lower the rating drastically so that other players are warned about these machinations.

Ich habe nur die E-Mail Adresse ändern müssen. @Casinoguru: Genau das habe ich immer wieder betont. Das hat leider System bei denen.

Zudem möchte ich noch einmal deutlich darauf hinweisen, dass ich auch nach Selbstausschluss per E-Mail aufgefordert wurde, das Konto wieder zu öffnen. Diese E-Mail liegt Casinoguru vor. Spielerschutz ist offensichtlich überhaupt nicht im Interesse dieses Casinos, wenn man mit nur einer unterschiedlichen Angabe sofort ein neues Konto hat, mit dem man dann noch nicht einmal Gewinne ausbezahlt bekommt.

Bitte senkt die Bewertung drastisch, damit andere Spieler vor diesen Machenschaften gewarnt werden.

Thank you, Betonic Casino Team, for the reply. We believe that this situation could have been avoided if the casino system had not allowed Stefan to create another account using the same personal details.

Our recommendation is to check all data entered during the registration for possible matches with other accounts. Checking at least the first name, surname, date of birth and the phone number should be a matter of course (ideally, the physical and the IP addresses too). Not only would this prevent situations like this one, but it would also serve as additional protection for existing players who might otherwise unintentionally create a second account.

That being said, it must be mentioned that based on the provided evidence and our records, there’s no doubt that Stefan was aware of and has been intentionally trying to abuse this weakness. Due to this reason, we suggest the involved parties agree upon a compromise.

In case the casino refuses to offer compensation, this complaint will be closed as ‘Unresolved’ with a reduced penalty.

If I am reimbursed € 1,000, I can live with it. Otherwise, other potential new customers will be warned of the provider by the reduced rating. Unfortunately there is a system that players like me can register again. The addiction is deliberately exploited as a weakness. Obviously you want to trigger gamblers. From the experience with the casinos of this group, I can say that they no longer answer because their greed is endless. Fortunately, everyone is warned about them. If they don't get in touch, everyone can see how unscrupulous the casino is. If the compromise is accepted and the rating remains unchanged as good, this is fair for all parties and potential new customers are not deterred.

Wenn mir 1.000 € erstattet werden, kann ich damit leben. Ansonsten werden andere mögliche Neukunden durch die reduzierte Bewertung vor dem Anbieter gewarnt. Leider hat es ja System, dass sich Spieler wie ich neu anmelden können. Die Sucht wird gezielt als Schwäche ausgenutzt. Man will offensichtlich spielsüchtige triggern. Aus der Erfahrung mit den Casinos dieser Gruppe kann ich sagen, dass die nicht mehr antworten, weil deren Gier endlos ist. Zum Glück wird so jeder vor denen gewarnt. Wenn die sich nicht melden, kann jeder sehen, wie skrupellos das Casino ist. Falls auf den Kompromiss eingegangen wird, und dadurch die Bewertung unverändert gut bleibt, ist das fair für alle Seiten und mögliche Neukunden werden nicht abgeschreckt.

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the update.

As we mentioned In our previous reply, our decision remains final and it's not a subject for further discussion.

All the relevant information was sent to the player's email and our Customer Support Desk already assisted him with his inquiry/case.

We hope you will find this informative.

With Warm Regards,

The Betonic Casino Team

Hopefully you can see how criminal this club is. None of them helped me. Greed is the only thing that counts for all Bellona BV casinos. Hopefully the rating will be changed accordingly. The aim is deliberately to generate secondary registrations from gambling addicts like me. Shameful behavior!

The black points and the poorer rating are absolutely deserved. I am pleased to have warned others about this provider.

Ihr seht hoffentlich, wie kriminell dieser Verein ist. Mir hat keiner von denen geholfen. Nur die Gier zählt für alle Bellona B.V. Casinos. Hoffentlich wird die Bewertung entsprechend geändert. Man zielt bewusst darauf ab, Zweitregistrierungen von spielsüchtigen wie mir zu generieren. Beschämendes Verhalten!

Die schwarzen Punkte und die schlechtere Bewertung sind absolut verdient. Ich freue mich, andere vor diesem Anbieter gewarnt zu haben.

Thank you, Betonic Casino Team, Stefan, for your replies.

As explained earlier, we consider the fact that Stefan was allowed to create another account using his personal details, deposit, and play despite the fact that he had previously self-excluded due to gambling addiction to be unacceptable. Since the casino is refusing to reconsider its decision in this case, this complaint will be closed as ‘Unresolved – Failed self-exclusion'.

Due to the fact that the provided evidence as well as our internal records suggest that Stefan intentionally tried to circumvent the blocks the casino had implemented to prevent situations like this one, the penalty for this complaint will be set accordingly.

Dear Stefan,

I am very sorry I couldn't be of more help, but closing this complaint as unresolved will at least negatively influence the casino's rating and other players can read about your experience in our review. I truly hope you will never come across a problem like this again.

The casino can reopen this complaint anytime.