BETSSEN Casino - プレイヤーの最大ベットが引き下げられました。

I am playing at their casino, but I continuously get limited in max bets.

First it was 300 EUR each hand (but I received a mail that it could be increased even to 10k) then 150 EUR. The support lady told it was due to my account being new, but gaming activity would also be considered. I even hinted that while continuously making max bets my gaming activity even cant be increased. Unfortunately they also have a leaderboard which I was/am competing. So ok with a lot of grinding 150 EUR could work, but my fear became reality. they even lowered my max bets to 100 then 50 and now even 50 is not working anymore, and support keeps pretending that 50 is now the max although I experience something different. But conclusion it became impossible for me to even keep competing in this tournament. So I dont now, even if you guys could help or something?

Dear Joris,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I want to inform you that we cannot make a case solely based on what you are describing. Please understand that we can’t punish the casino for applying a limit on your maximum bet. Casinos, in general, have a right to restrict or even close players’ accounts if they suspect irregular play or other questionable activities or for no reason at all.

If the casino paid out all the winnings and no funds are being held, I’m afraid, there’s not much we can do for you.

Please let me know if there is any additional information that I have overlooked, but I’m afraid I will be forced to reject your complaint as unjustified. I wish I could be of more help. Thank you in advance for your reply and understanding.

Best regards,

Petronela

I understand, however could you maybe help me get an explanation why? Because I talked to them and they say it is their "system"that automatically does this and that it will probably be a temporary thing. When I will no longer be a new member, so I asked them what it would take to achieve VIP, because I already wagered a lot, but didn't get an answer although they promised to send me an answer on last sunday, but haven't received anything. Meanwhile they also say that my max bet is 50 EUR, but when I try to play it doesnt work, not even 5 EUR, I also adressed this to them, but they repeatedly claimed that it is 50 EUR and were going to investigate this, but also still no answer.

Thank you very much, Joris, for your reply. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Martin who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

I would like to add something.

I contacted support regarding the issue again, using some not so polite words, and now this person told me that I can't bet because my account is under monitoring (so clearly different than what an other support agent told me).

Now I received an e-mail saying that they increased my bet size back to 200 EUR, that is not very high, but high enough for me and I also understande the whole reasoning of casino management, but it was the lack of information and contradictions that was irritating me.

So in the end I don't know if you guys had to do something with it, it is fine by me and the complaint can be closed.

Anyway thank you for your help and understanding.

We’ve reopened this complaint as per the player’s request. We would like to give this case one more chance to get resolved and help both involved parties to reach to a satisfactory conclusion.

Additional comments from the player:

"So I am back again asking for your help. After the first complaint why they were continuously limiting me, suddenlt I received a message that I was still allowed to place 100 EUR bets but not allowed anymore on ezugi. Fine by me, I started grinding on betconstruct live casino. I lost, then I won again (blackjack can have some variance), but unsurprisingly I got limited again, to be honest I even didnt want to win. Because the tournament I am competing in concludes in a few days, this is f****d up. So in analogy from how it works on evolution gaming, I started to multi table. So I opened different live blackjack tables so continue my grind to wager for the tournament. NOW I immediately received a message my account will be blocked because according to their T&C I breached 12.3: "BET SENSATION does not allow two or more Users to place bets from one IP-address (from the same computer or the same local network) in order to avoid suspicion of collusion (cheating) and to place bets in multiple windows. In such cases it is necessary to reconcile the possibility of the game with BET SENSATION by explaining the circumstances. BET SENSATION has the right to block the account of such a user and ask them to send the documents verifying their registered identity." First of all this is about multiple accounts, which is not the case. Second how can this be even a problem. I understand that when you play at the same table there is a problem, however I played at different tables, each window a different table, so there is no interference on the game whatsoever (just like at evolution gaming, where you can also , multi table), I am trying to make them understand this (like they said explain the circumstances), but it seems the only thing is that they are interested in blocking me. If I play 1 hour on table A and B at the same time or I play 1 hour at table A and then 1 hour on table B, statistically the EV is the same. So maybe you guys can shed light to them, that there actually is no difference and even that the rule is not applicable here, because there is NO MULTIACCOUNTING."

Hello Joris!

I would like to ask you, did you purposely played via multiple windows to progress through the tournament?

Yes, I just made use of their software to open those tables, because with only 40 EUR (because they limit me) bets it would take 2,5x as much time as with 100 EUR bet. You can just click on "new window", then the window pops up and you still have the original window in the back so you can open an extra table, so actually it is some kind of feature from their software. So there is no using multiple devices, no different browsers, just their own software I used. That combined with the fact that there is no advantage in having multiple tables at the same time makes me wonder their actions. Regarding the fact that I would maybe gain an advantage in the leaderboard compared to other players, that is also not the case, because it is a tournament organised by the providers I think and therefore running on different sites and if someone would be at a disadvantage, it would be me because other players don't face these difficulties, like now I was on my way to become first, but because I am unable to play, I can't even hold my 2nd place and it ends in 29 hours.

I would like to add while I am waiting to withdraw my money, it has to be in a lot of steps because only 3k at a time and it can take up to 3 days, the tournament I am talking about ended, I finished in 4th place with a price of 8125.8 EUR. I checked my account and I saw it was added, however after checking again after a few hours, they just removed those tournament winnings, so now they are also withholding my money. According to live chat it is because of the violation of breaking their T&C, but like I mentioned, I did not violate their T&C because it is apllied on two or more users.

Hello Joris!

I am afraid that we will not be able to help you in any way in this situation.

Unfortunately, it seems, that you breached one of the terms & conditions. Let me bring the term 12.3. to your attention once more, that of which you are already familiar with. There is clearly stated that it is forbidden to place bets in multiple windows.

Therefore I am afraid that the casino is fully justified in it's actions.

I am afraid that is not entirely correct, because as you know 12.3 states "two or more Users" and that is not the case however I don't care anymore about that account, I now only want them to pay out the winnings I received from the tournament 8125 EUR, there is no reason to confiscate these, where is this stated in their T&C? If they want to block me fine, but not confiscate the winnings. Regarding the multiple windows, they allow it if it is a feature by the provider they said (like on evolution gaming), and in my opninion the fact that the software has a "open a new pop-up window" and you have still the lobby in the background, than it also looks to me as a feature, you can look at the video I made in the wetransferlink.

https://we.tl/t-biKdLmAEq0

I used to be a poker player and I understand that collusion is bad, I also know about placing sport bets, but there is no advantage to be gained by playing different blackjack tables at the same time, if they do not acknowledge this than they are just after confiscating winnings and trying to angleshoot players which is in the same category as scamming TBH.

Hello Joris!

I would like to ask Bet-Sensation Casino to join this discussion and help us resolve the issue.

We would like to ask Bet-Sensation Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’, which will have negative impact on the casino's rating.

Thank you for sharing the feedback of our services.

The pattern of limits change has been frequent and diverse, we must agree. The player has been notified about limit changes both up and down, so the claim that we only decreased the limits will not be relevant.

The account has been closed based on the following two points :

12.3 BET SENSATION does not allow two or more Users to place bets from one IP-address (from the same computer or the same local area network) in order to avoid suspicion of collusion (cheating) and to place bets using multiple windows. In such cases it is necessary to reconcile the possibility of the game with BET SENSATION by explaining the circumstances. BET SENSATION has the right to block the account of such a User and ask them to send the documents verifying their registered identity.

12.5 BET SENSATION does not allow place bets on more than two seats in black jack games. Only maximum of two seats are considered as valid. Otherwise, we have right to block the accounts of users without prior notice.

As for the limits , again Casino has the right to automatically set the threshold for player, game, market, etc.- point 28.1 of Terms and Conditions :

28.1 The minimum single bet on any event is €1 or equivalent amount in players account currency. The minimum bet in express or/and system bet is €1 or equivalent amount in players account currency. Unless otherwise stated, only one bet per sport event or match is allowed. Maximum stake per bet both in Sports and Casino must be equal or smaller than the limits the system offers at the moment of placing the bets.

Regardless of complaints and at times sour correspondence between the player and Casino, all funds have been paid ( this includes winnings as well) and player has benefitted of 15K EURO profit. We consider current claim irrelevant and unnecessary. Thank you!

Thanks Bet-Sensation Casino for your reply.

I would like to ask Joris, to confirm that he received aforementioned winnings.

Nope I have not received everything. Like I mentioned there is still the winnings from the tournament that they don't mention.

They have been taken from my account so my point is still valid. This is the link to the tournament.

https://www.bsensation.com/#/tournaments/?tournament_id=2010

I finished in 4th place and those winnings have been credited (I guess by betconstruct the provider that organised it) and soon after confiscated by Betsensation which they don't give a valid explication for.

Hello Joris!

I would like to bring to your attention, that I have an ongoing conversation about your case with Bet Sensation Casino representatives, to better understand the case.

I will keep you updated soon.

Hello Martin, no problem, take your time, although I am curious what they are saying.

I would like to add to their comment about "The pattern of limits change has been frequent and diverse, we must agree. The player has been notified about limit changes both up and down, so the claim that we only decreased the limits will not be relevant." I clearly stated here in one of my posts that they decided to increase my limits, only after first receiving an e-mail stating that decisions are final and not up for review, but then a few days later, out of the blue I receive an e-mail that they made a second review.

But like I also stated further I even don't care anymore about those limits, the issue now is the confiscation of the payout of that tournament. And they did not say a word about this, only saying that I won a lot. Even if I would have won 10x that amount, that is no reason at all, because if I would have lost more than I should have, I also couldn't complain about running bad, like when I was down 10k or so, could I? I think they just don't understand the principle of variance, but without this, there would be no winners and therefore less incentive to play.

Hello Joris!

According to the transcripts of the conversations you had with the casino's customer support representatives, that were provided by Bet Sensation Casino, it seems obvious that during your participation in the tournament you were notified and warned about breaching the casino's terms & conditions, which should have been a clear signal for you to stop doing so.

Unfortunately in this case, I am afraid, that there is not much I can do for you.

Euhm that is not entirely correct. I played those 2 different tables at the same time, then I suddenly couldn't play anymore. Then I went asking what was wrong and they started about their stupid rule which according to me is not applicable, every blackjack player knows this. I wonder where you got the "it seems obvious that during your participation in the tournament you were notified and warned about breaching the casino's terms & conditions, which should have been a clear signal for you to stop doing so." after the first notification of this stupid breach, I couldn't play anymore so the argument that you make that should have stopped doing so is not valid, because how could I play if I was not able to place any bets. TBH this sounds like some kind of a scam by you working together with them and I would like to have proof from those conversations because I know the whole story. Even while this stupid breach happened, thus before the notification, the amount of points accumulated was even not significant. That the tournament itself was still running and I received the prize after I got blocked doesn't mean I kept playing, I was not even able to so.

Hello Joris!

Firstly, please accept my apologies, after re-evaluation of the documents provided by the casino, we pursued the communication with the casino once again. I will let you know of any outcome.

Secondly, I would like you to confirm, the disputed amount of your supposed tournament prize is €8125,8?

Could you please disclose, when did you started to use the software feature of playing at two different tables?

Hello Joris!

After some additional communication with Bet Sensation Casino's representatives, we have received some evidence regarding your case, we are currently analyzing it.

Please, give me a few more days to reply.

Thank you for your patience.

Hello Joris!

After evaluating all the evidence we have come into conclusion, that there was a reason for the casino to disqualify the player from tournament standings, because he was playing on multiple tables which is against terms and conditions. As this led to gaining an advantage in the tournament.

However, this case is not black and white. We must also mention that these specific T&C's are not clear and can be understood in more than one way. Also the fact that casino software is giving option to open multiple tables is very confusing. Because of this we would like to suggest to casino to fix this issues to prevent such situations in the future. We will also give a small amount of black points for this complaint to Bet Sensation Casino.

If you are dissatisfied with the outcome of this complaint, the only thing I can suggest is to raise the complaint to the casino's Licensing Authority. Should you be in need of any assistance, please feel free to reach me via email, on my address: 'martin.d@casino.guru'.

First, what about the fact that the fact that they lowered bets, that would be a disadvantage compared to players at other casino's?

Second the amount of points accumulated after playing on those two tables is irrelevant, meaning they have no influence on the standing if you would deduct them, almost all of them are accumulated in a regular way.

Third is it not upto the organiser (I think it is betconstruct) to decide if there is an advantage to be gained, clearly they didn't have an issue because they credited me with the amount? So it is only the T&C from betsensation I violated, but not those from the tournament itself.

Hello Joris!

Unfortunately, I am not able to go into more details about the details that were provided to us. I'd like to inform you, that our conclusion was made after numerous internal discussions with our experts and was based on evidence provided by the casino.

I can suggest two options for you, you might get answers for questions which sadly I am not able to explain, as the information provided to us are confidential. You can raise this complaint to the Licensing Authority or you can contact Bet Construct game provider. If there is any assistance needed in any of the said options, do not hesitate to contact me via email on 'martin.d@casino.guru'.

In any case, I am sorry to say, that there is nothing that we are able to do for you regarding this case.

If you do not have any further queries, I'll have to proceed to close this complaint.

Shouldn't I normally see the evidence that is provided against me? Maybe some of it is not 100% correct and I should be able to defend myself against it?

But to summarise it: "they deducted it because I gained an unfair advantage according to betsensation" is that correct? Just to be clear from which viewing point I need to discuss this with the licensing authority and/or betconstruct.

As casinoguru could you maybe ask the authority or betconstruct to come to this thread or do you have some kind of contact where I do know that I won't be ignored?

Hello Joris!

As I said earlier the documentation provided to us was confidential and we do not disclose these to anyone, the casinos provide us often with some evidence, only to have a better insight and to help us make any conclusion and we are not able to share it publicly or to anyone.

I completely understand that you would like to see the documents for yourself, however in this case we are not able to make any move. It is up to casinos to decide to whom they provide such information.

When you decide to raise the complaint further, the Licensing Authority will also be able to access the same documentation and maybe even more than we did. That is why in case of your dissatisfaction you should do it.

Also, the fact that you tried to resolve the complaint here is one of the necessary steps, to file a complaint about casino with the Licensing Authority.

We are not able to invite any Licensing Authority into our complaint's threads. You need to contact them on your own. I will write you some instructions here.

You can write an email to: 'complaints@gaminglicences.com'.

Please, it is necessary for you to include following:

• Personal information (Including country of residence and age)
• Casino name
• Email and username that you used in Bet Sensation Casino
• Description of the whole issue
• Also include a link of this complaint thread - it is one of the requirements

Regarding the contact of Betconstruct game provider, sadly we do not communicate with game providers on regular basis. The best thing I can suggest for you is to contact this email address: 'david.ozararat@betconstruct.com'. According to their website, David is regional director for France, Monaco, Switzerland, BeNeLux countries and French speaking countries.

When you will successfully manage to file a complaint with the Licensing Authority, please let us know here. As our conclusion to this case was already made, we will have to close this complaint.

If you'd need a further assistance in above mentioned efforts, please feel free to reach me via email, on my address: 'martin.d@casino.guru'.

Hello Joris!

Have you managed to successfully contact the Licensing Authority or Betconstruct?

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to update the status of your complaint in the given time frame, we will reject it.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Unfortunately, the player hasn’t responded to our messages and questions and we already stated our conclusion of this case earlier. We will proceed to closing this complaint.

We strongly believe that this case could have been handled better by Bet Sensation Casino's representatives and therefore we will close it as 'unresolved' and give them only a small portion of black points.